Upside Down and Backwards

I'm back to good old blue state NJ, but still on blogging-lite for the next few days. However, I just couldn't help making a few comments today (so what else is new?)

A new Rasmussen poll has found that 64% of Americans agree that the NSA should have the right to listen in to telephone conversations with foreigners. As Americablog points out, that's the wrong question. Most of us might agree that certain conversations with foreigners should be tapped. The right question is whether the president is right to break the law and violate the Constitution by authorizing wiretaps without any oversight by anyone outside of his immediate control. Who knows how people would respond to that since no one has asked the question? But, I'm not very sanguine about the answer after having just returned from the reddest of the red-State part of Florida.

At a party the other night, I was totally surprised when a person I knew to be a died-in-the-wool Bush lover started saying a) that the Plame leak was just a horrible breach of national security and the perpetrators should be tried and convicted of treason, b) that the "no child left behind" law was a horrible piece of legislation and that those who wrote it should be un-elected, and c) that the Medicare Part-D perscription drug plan was absolutely idiotic and that anyone who supported that should be shot (not literally, but figuratively). As I said, I was amazed that this Republican, Bush-lover would be saying these things, so I said, "I totally agree with you. So why do you still like Bush?"

Her response was that the Plame leak was done by the Liberal/Communist NY Times, that the "no child left behind" act was a Democratic program pushed through by the fillibuster law that "lets minorities pass bills that no one wants," and that the Medicare Prescription Drug law was pushed through by Ted Kennedy because he had murdered MaryJo Kopecknik. "Fillibusters should be outlawed."

Now, this was not a joke. She was dead serious... as were any number of other people standing around during the conversation supporting her. All agreed that the NY Times should be closed down (most didn't understand that their own newspaper, the Polk County Ledger is a NY Times paper that spouts conservative propaganda because it's in a Red-State) due to the treasonous leak of Plame's name by NY Times' columnists. Others condemned the Dems for the "socialist legislation" of drug coverage under the Medicare Part D plan. Still others said Teddy was a radical leftist for pushing for government funding of school programs under the NCLB act.

Then, I went to another party, and started talking to a major real-estate developer in the area. He too is a died-in-the-wool Bush lover. He started by saying that this is the most robust economy in HISTORY! IN ALL HISTORY!

I mentioned that you couldn't prove that through wage increases or even employment increases. He disagreed, quoting statistics that he said were released last Thursday (which I haven't yet seen). Since I hadn't seen the stats, I said I hadn't seen them, but that everything prior to that date suggested real wages were down and that nowhere near as many new jobs had been created since Bush took office as new people potentially joining the job market. He countered with the low un-employment number. I countered with the large number of people who have simply dropped out of the labor force. He countered that those were all illegal aliens who shouldn't be counted anyway (as far as I know, he had no support at all for that one).

Then, we moved on to other topics. I brought up the NSA spying issue. He simply hadn't heard anything about it, even though he claims to read seven newspapers everyday and watches FOX News every evening. Moving on, he agreed that the Plame leak was an outrage, but when I said it was leaked by Bush operatives, he said, "No, it was leaked by the New York Times. They should all be hung by their toenails."

Meanwhile, others all agreed that torturing those "evil bastard muslims" was just what they deserved.

It's sort of interesting that these people all travel to Las Vegas regularly and to the hot spots in the Bahamas, but none of them have been out of the Country -- ever -- except to the Atlantis resort in the Bahamas.

Facts upside down. Logic backwards or worse, random.

How do you deal with this?

Frankly, I was so astounded by the ignorance and blindness and bull-headedness of these people (all of whom are pretty good people who I love in their own right) that I have no idea how to connect with them politically.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.